2020 Feature 'The Garden'

Rumtugger

Well-Known Member
We need to figure out a way somehow to make productions like these more viable.
I'm not talking about going into normie-world, but more I'm talking about raising the quality level within our fetish. Yes, we're a little stuck with the label but let's embrace it... why not elevate ourselves in our theater? Instead of inserting porn into mainstream, why not insert story into porn?
To break a previously long, boring post of mine down and try to address the issue more accurately:

More story in porn is a great idea, and I would like that, but is it what’s needed to make films like The Garden more viable? I’m not sure. I assume by viability you mean more sales to cover costs and for that you need to consider buyers like me.

I have bought The Garden and think it’s great. I bought it despite the “label” because it is an Agatha film which means it is going to be delivering a certain level of satisfaction. I have bought dozens of her films for this reason but… I always buy with some reluctance; I’m not a fan of overt porn… and it’s that reluctance to buy it that’s a problem if you rely on sales.

My query is whether the porn element is strictly necessary. Is it necessary? Personally, I don’t think so and I have a feeling that if the porn element were toned down a bit, rather than wrapped up in a great story, it would appeal to the more reluctant buyers and a wider audience in general. Cannibal films are like gold dust and cannibal fans are going to seek out cannibal films of every kind. They do, already! I mean we all liked “To Serve Man.” It wasn’t because it wasn’t pornographic that is was a tad disappointing… it was because Agatha’s delightful actresses weren’t on the menu. If The Garden had simply been a straight remake of To Serve Man, with the erotic presence of a scantily clad Jolene Hexx and Agatha on the platter, I would have still bought it. In fact, I would have bought it a lot sooner.

Agatha’s actresses are extremely appealing. The storylines are very appealing. The Wastes and The Garden are a cut above the others and as good as quite a few mainstream movies I’ve seen. My point is, they should be bought by every cannibal aficionado and probably would be if they called out to a more general audience. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t still make the less complex porn movies, as well; it’s just that making super high quality porn may not pay because of reluctant buyer syndrome.
 
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Twistd

Administrator
Staff member
To break a previously long, boring post of mine down and try to address the issue more accurately:

More story in porn is a great idea, and I would like that, but is it what’s needed to make films like The Garden more viable? I’m not sure. I assume by viability you mean more sales to cover costs and for that you need to consider buyers like me.

I have bought The Garden and think it’s great. I bought it despite the “label” because it is an Agatha film which means it is going to be delivering a certain level of satisfaction. I have bought dozens of her films for this reason but… I always buy with some reluctance; I’m not a fan of overt porn… and it’s that reluctance to buy it that’s a problem if you rely on sales.

My query is whether the porn element is strictly necessary. Is it necessary? Personally, I don’t think so and I have a feeling that if the porn element were toned down a bit, rather than wrapped up in a great story, it would appeal to the more reluctant buyers and a wider audience in general. Cannibal films are like gold dust and cannibal fans are going to seek out cannibal films of every kind. They do, already! I mean we all liked “To Serve Man.” It wasn’t because it wasn’t pornographic that is was a tad disappointing… it was because Agatha’s delightful actresses weren’t on the menu. If The Garden had simply been a straight remake of To Serve Man, with the erotic presence of a scantily clad Jolene Hexx and Agatha on the platter, I would have still bought it. In fact, I would have bought it a lot sooner.

Agatha’s actresses are extremely appealing. The storylines are very appealing. The Wastes and The Garden are a cut above the others and as good as quite a few mainstream movies I’ve seen. My point is, they should be bought by every cannibal aficionado and probably would be if they called out to a more general audience. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t still make the less complex porn movies, as well; it’s just that making super high quality porn may not pay because of reluctant buyer syndrome.

It was a very good point about the balloon maker, it's a very apt example, should've left it up, rumtugger. :D I just didn't have time to reply till later! It is a sad state of dumb-down consumerism, like a lot of shows on network TV especially CBS right now. See the new Twilight Zone, Equalizer, Clarice Starling, Star Trek Discovery, it's all a lot of dumbed down short-cut copypaste TV police procedural/soap types where I can continue to rail about quality, but if people are still watching it, why should they change? I don't know enough inside the boardroom if ratings are falling and losing money or not. Is discouraging to know if this method works which means, art will continue to degrade. Our challenge now is to see if we can continue to inspire while maintaining that essence of aesthetic quality.
 

Twistd

Administrator
Staff member
I appreciate the compliment, though I have to admit I don't always know how to feel when my stories get compliments like that...

I would say that your stuff is certainly better than current day Marvel and DC, though..
And likewise! Thanks for the compliments. I'm not too egotistical to admit when someone's better than me at something, but in fear of sounding arrogant when I say that I've been waiting for some new artist to one-up me, at least in the traditional 2D art sphere, but I'm still waiting. It's as if nobody's doing these classical types of art anymore, they're either retired, getting older, dying out in place of more abstract simplicity. Even Picasso had been classically trained before he went this direction but everyone wants to be Picasso without the training nowadays.

Captain Marvel is a good example there and for more, I don't know what to say when I see these contrasts:
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And to get back at the point, even Agatha's The Garden in all honesty, in terms of story, passion & writing trumps the CBS version of that 2020 Twilight Zone episode & I hope that gets appreciated.
 

Rolando Admin

The Administrator
Staff member
oh lord...the low quality of the new art!

Have thick people..have multiple genders..have every race

But do not insult these people by drawing them so poorly! The decline in quality and the laziness of production is sickening.
 

LT

Well-Known Member
I have to admit, I'm a bit confused by people who are into the fetish but not the porn aspect of it. I suppose it is the peril aspect that is appealing in that case. My frustration is more the opposite, in most cases, which is that the sexual aspect tends to be toned down whenever you usually see it on TV or in movies, and any disappointment I have with Agatha's videos have more to do with the restrictions she has to work under (i.e. no blood, no weapons, etc.). The only reluctance I typically have in making purchases is more a budgeting one as I've never had a lot of money to play with. Other than that, it's a matter of taste, I suppose. I guess I'm a bit of a finicky eater. :giggle:
 

Rumtugger

Well-Known Member
I have to admit, I'm a bit confused by people who are into the fetish but not the porn aspect of it. I suppose it is the peril aspect that is appealing in that case. My frustration is more the opposite, in most cases, which is that the sexual aspect tends to be toned down whenever you usually see it on TV or in movies, and any disappointment I have with Agatha's videos have more to do with the restrictions she has to work under (i.e. no blood, no weapons, etc.). The only reluctance I typically have in making purchases is more a budgeting one as I've never had a lot of money to play with. Other than that, it's a matter of taste, I suppose. I guess I'm a bit of a finicky eater. :giggle:
Indeed, I think I am probably unusual in this respect among fetishists here. I also don’t much care for the blood, dismemberment, or death... although I don’t mind portraying it for commissions. You are quite right… it is the peril that is my interest. However, although I am, perhaps, the outsider amongst cannibal fetishists, I may be in the majority of potential film purchasers. (Note I said maybe.)

The fetish community is relatively small. Cannibal fetishists are an even smaller subset. Cannibal fetishists who buy movies… an even smaller subset, again. My point is that people who like horror and peril, as well as cannibal fetishists, might go for a well made film short with pretty girls in erotic woman-eating situations and that group would be substantially larger. After all, portrayals of cannibalism in mainstream films is nothing new… it just isn’t done as well as Agatha does it.

Porn has a huge problem. It can’t be sold on certain platforms, it can’t be advertised widely, not everybody likes having it on their computer, or entering payment details on a porn site. Then once you have the film, it requires private time to view and a place to seclude it away. Horror and peril don’t have these restrictions. That’s the thing… I can watch “To Serve Man” with the family and keep it on the shelf.
 

Rumtugger

Well-Known Member
It was a very good point about the balloon maker, it's a very apt example, should've left it up, rumtugger. :D I just didn't have time to reply till later! It is a sad state of dumb-down consumerism, like a lot of shows on network TV especially CBS right now. See the new Twilight Zone, Equalizer, Clarice Starling, Star Trek Discovery, it's all a lot of dumbed down short-cut copypaste TV police procedural/soap types where I can continue to rail about quality, but if people are still watching it, why should they change? I don't know enough inside the boardroom if ratings are falling and losing money or not. Is discouraging to know if this method works which means, art will continue to degrade. Our challenge now is to see if we can continue to inspire while maintaining that essence of aesthetic quality.
Yes, I agree with you on everything you say, here. Some shows have been utterly ruined by removing everything that once made them great.

Your concern is understandable. Also, if you are doing what you truly enjoy, you should run with it. Still, it is the golden rule of any business to not overspend, target the right market, and make sure that market is willing and able to pay. If you are putting things into the movies because you really want to, that’s great. Enjoy it. However, if you are putting things in only because you think that’s what the majority wants, and only the majority will buy it if you do, it may be useful to do some market research.

As for the balloon animal maker story… here it is, once more… It’s not for the faint-hearted, is a tad over-indulgent but does illustrate the problem dedicated creative artists have. See below:


The Sad Saga of Timspode Fenticum (An illustrative lesson in the unfortunate realities of a creative artist...)

Timspode Fenticum made balloon animals and was an absolute genius at the art. He could do all the classics with ease: a swan, a sausage dog, a butterfly, a giraffe… no knot was beyond his capability. However, although he was constantly in demand, he noticed that his audience was not fully engaged. While some were clearly agog at his antics, others were preoccupied with gazing vacantly into space, picking their nose, or projectile vomiting chips and Jello. He really wanted to be hired for more sophisticated parties and perform for a wider audience so he decided to do something about it.

To solve his problem, he set about improving his skill. Eventually, by practising every hour of every night, he became the most amazing balloon animal maker in the world. From simple poodles, parrots, and pandas, he progressed to a lifelike Triceratops, a realistic dragon, a complete working model of a yak’s lower intestines and, his pièce de résistance… two octopuses making love on a four poster bed. His fame increased, he entered the Guinness Book of Records, he performed for the crowned heads of Europe, but he was not happy. In fact, his bookings, actually decreased.

The problem was that although his skill just kept getting better and better, he was still a balloon animal maker and his audience was always going to be of the maturity-challenged kind. All they really wanted was to see someone make a sausage dog and a giraffe. More complex creatures made them lose focus even more, the dragons frightened them and the octopuses confused them.

In the end he realised that as a balloon animal maker, his audience were only ever going to be the kind that untied his shoe laces and laughed when a balloon popped in his face. All they wanted was the basics and it was in their nature to be distracted.

Much later in life he became a stand-up comedian. As a comedian, he appealed to a much wider audience and found he could, on occasion, introduce balloon animals into his act. He “popped” his clogs a happy man.

The moral of tale is that a balloon animal maker will always only ever have a limited audience that doesn’t concern itself with sophistication as long as it has the basics.
 

spamurai

Well-Known Member
Ok. It's been awhile... long enough that I think I/we can/should talk more about this more. If for no other reason than because I think there are too much gold to mine, too much fruit to leave on the vine, that could inspire more content and discussion.

By now, I'm hoping no one is still waiting to watch it... but if so...

**** SPOILER ALERT ****

I watched it again to refresh my impressions of this episode.

I think there is a lot of potential here to be mined for future content. I feel like there were several elements that demonstrated ideas that would be worth fleshing out as inspiration for future movies all on their own. Overall, I think the concept incorporated several attractive themes that are worth exploring more in future stories. I certainly think the overarching plot has more to offer and I would love to see the Alien overlords return for more stories.

In short, I think there is a lot of great ideas here and they deserve exploring. At least, *I* would like to see more of them any ways.



First, the overall concept of fatalism. The idea that someone is resigned to an inescapable fate is a regular theme in this fetish (and an attractive one IMO). Here, our protagonist begins in denial of their implied fate, to be consumed by an alien race. She rebels against the implication, but ultimately succumbs to it and the twist; she wasn't coerced into it, but chose it out of her own free will.


The dream sequences stood out to me (huzzah nakid Jolene!) as a highlight and not just because of nakid Jolene. The idea of being in a state of conflict between two opposing basic drives inside the mind. I wish we were able to explore this in greater detail in these scenes. Perhaps in a future episode.

This scene reminded me of a classic movie scene in which a woman is abducted in the night by aliens and taking aboard the mothership. While aboard, the aliens induce a hallucination in her mind to pacify her with a positive perception of her surroundings while they "probe" her. However, her subconscious begins to reject the fabrication and dispels the hallucinations to reveal the true horror of her reality.

It's like Galva's conscious side is aware and opposes the alien agenda, but the Kanamits are using her dreams to subconsciously seduce her into accepting them. Or perhaps, Galva is experiencing inner turmoil because some part of her is attracted to the idea of submitting to the Kanamits, and the aliens are exploiting this. Either way, its great.

Then there is the idea of agency over ones surroundings. I think it is disconcerting to feel as if you have no control over ones own fate; that some one or some thing else commands your destiny. To be an idle passenger on this journey of life is unnerving. Galva is clearly confident in her sense of agency, and she goes to sleep thinking she is wise to the Kanamits intentions and has the upper hand, only to wake up onboard the ship to discover that it appears the Kanamits have been in control the entire time. Thus, perhaps, deflating her morale as it bring into question how much control she ever had. 3

The next scenes of Galva being shown the process of what the Kanamits do to humans invoked the feeling what it would be like to foreshadow ones fate in another, as it happens, knowing you are next soon afterwards. Watching her friends meet (meat?) grisly ends. Many stories play on this theme really well. Just the thought of being caught up in something, advancing towards the abyss one step at a time. Obviously, an important influence that affects her ultimate decision that follows soon after.

My favorite scene though, is the last, watching Galva accept her fate. Allowing herself to be converted, before turning over to receive her brand, marking her as chattel for the appetites of the Kanamits. Again, just something about the symbolism of willingly stepping off a precipice into the unknown depths of the abyss. It is so contrary to every natural instinct. We are supposed to be ingrained with an inherent sense for self preservation and to consider circumventing it or watching someone abandon it is so very alien to witness. Plus... huzzah nakid Jolene!


So... overall... The Garden was a great effort and was worth experiencing it. If for no other reason than to stimulate more discussion about the fetish, especially the philosophical elements that sometimes I think are overlooked in the quest for the carnal presentations.

I hope we can do this again... there are so many good stories floating around that I think could be good inspiration for future movies.
 
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Rolando Admin

The Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for this. I really wanted to explore some of the deeper feelings that original episode evoked as far as fatalism, shock, distrust, too much trust, perspective, a feeling of inferiority, giving and receiving, etc. The deeper human psychological aspects of this kink interest me the most. More than 'ooo school girl saying eep!' or shit like that. I personally find the young teen shame innocence thing boring as hell, (even though I produce it a lot to please a portion of ppl who love it) and the other, deeper and more overall human psychological aspects to this kink way more interesting. So really focused more on what inspires for this. Maybe it was a little self indulgent but I always wanted to see a sequel to To Serve Man.
 
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spamurai

Well-Known Member
As a creative, being self indulgent isn't a bad thing... when it produces something others can also enjoy too. So, indulge all you want if this is what comes from it.

And sure... binding up a nakid girl on a platter is attractive on a purely physical level... but, to be honest, the stories that tend to push more of my buttons all at once are the scenes that convey what's going on inside her head and those around her.
 

Rolando Admin

The Administrator
Staff member
I did not think in terms of how much money can this make. So yeah..was self indulgent but also probably disappointed people who love the innocent thing.

My leading lady was not innocent or meek or petite or 18. I wanted her to be a leader and strong. Wanted to depict a strong, capable mid to late 20-somthing who is leading people against what she gives into in the end when she realizes the bigger picture. Strength in letting go because there is no other option. and what is worse? Being a happy, cared for slave? Or free and to toil? She realizes that despite her insight, most are better off this way than trying to go to war with a superior species.

And to bring her to a point of surrender... It is more of a story to me that way than a helpless, vapid damsel.
 

spamurai

Well-Known Member
I totally understand the need to supply want is in demand in order to pay the bills. I just think it a loss, to not be able to self indulge and assume things you think are interesting, no one would want, because I personally would love to see more of it.

In fact, I would love to see spin-off stories from The Garden, because I liked the ideas you had. Not wanting to back-seat drive, but I thought a follow-up story of a scenario that maybe revolved around the question of what if Galva (or a totally different character) had accepted the Alien proposal to join them as an emissary of sorts... recruiting more people to willingly submit . On the one had, she knows the truth and is complicit in condoning a fabrication, but on the other hand she knows (or is convinced) it is inevitable to submit to their apatite's as food and feels it is actually a service to her fellow humans to guide them to the easy way out, instead of them learning the truth and being forced into the hard way. She has to wrestle with knowing what she is participating in, but also not ready to accept it herself.
 
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